This is a moderated subreddit. Lionel Shriver's We Need To Talk About Kevin is an elegant exploration of guilt, says Zoë Green Zoë Green Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST First published on Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST Interesting. If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. I think Kevin was both born and made, but the degree of which is what I really enjoy discussing. Can you fake that unconditional love and acceptance? We also need to talk about Eva, the amount of emotional labor placed on mothers, and the complex decision to have children. Shriver won the prestigious Orange Prize in 2005, and the book was adapted to screen in 2011. Is that within their control? — Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath? Counterpoint, $25 (416p) ISBN 1-58243-267-8. Our therapist called this "parent shopping". In MRI scans of a normal person vs someone with antisocial personality disorder, there are differences, so they can be born. This question was recently posed to Reddit users, and some of the results were a little surprising. He’s the only one to blame. We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, published by Serpent's Tail, about a fictional school massacre. I don't think so, so I definitely agree with your points here. Eva was definitely the only one who saw Kevin for who he really was. Now she wakes up every morning and wishes she was in France!”. Last Updated on October 26, 2018, by eNotes Editorial. Eva is incredibly unlikeable, but I do feel bad for her considering how much she lost in the end. We're not sure what is more shocking, the violence of the crime, or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out. Within the genre of maternal horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin is a doozy. I knew he didn't. It speaks to the worst human fear imaginable: that evil lurks, not in the outside world, but right at home. People are born this way. I don't think can blame Eva for her lack of maternal instinct, especially when she didn't want to have kids in the first place. One of the hardest things was that nobody believed me about how mean he could be because he was absolutely charming to everyone else. The novel is presented in a series of letters by Eva Katchadourian to her estranged husband Franklin, whom the reader is led to believe is reading these letters, however at the end of the … I knew it was hyper-vigilance (feeling unsafe and therefore unable to concentrate because he was always scanning for threats). WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN Lionel Shriver. Directed by Lynne Ramsay. Answered Questions (17) I only saw the movie and I exonerate his mother completely of any fault. The movie, based on a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, follows Eva (Tilda Swinton), the mother of Kevin … You make me feel bad; feeling bad makes me mad; ergo, you make me mad. “Mommy was happy before Kevin came along. The film moves without any pattern between past, present and who knows when. That pretty much the whole time she is trying to convince herself that Kevin was born that way, and at the very end she recognizes her blame and tries to redeem herself by changing her approach in her relationship with her son. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? We cling to guidelines like the length of Tilda Swinton's hair to figure out where we are. The fact that nobody else clued in to Kevin's behavior is no surprise to me. On the note of "people are born this way", check out the documentary "Child of Rage" - it explores that further and is very interesting. 3 - what role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin's behaviour and refused to believe Eva's concerns? He didn't bullshit her, but he manipulated everyone else. Today, they’re kicking off December with their most taboo theme to date: Killer Kids. The very ending of the book is odd after she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree? — The Impossible Question of ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: Nature or Nurture? If so, to what degree? Jim Spellman via Getty Images "What name is considered to be trashy in your country?" By Lionel Shriver. Furthermore, if one doesn't bond with your child, for whatever reason, can they fake it? I don't like Eva, but I think Shriver chose her for the narrative because you get to see how much of her abuse does have influence, but also how ridiculous the level of blame by the locals is as well. People always ignore the warning songs because it “won’t happen to them”. So, was the school responsible? My main question is regarding the relationship between Kevin … But are all killers in general made or born? One thing Eva finally does that she hasn't been able to do in the years after Kevin's crime is to ask him flat-out why he did it. Stream the episode above and subscribe to the series now. Kevin definitely is extremely manipulative as a child, as he shows signs of psychopathy from very early on. We need to talk about it. Press J to jump to the feed. 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? (*May have actually been written and performed by … Ik this is an old comment, but how are things now with the child? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Directed by Lynne Ramsay, "We Need to Talk About Kevin" is fragments of time, jagged and confusing, lurching around inside her mind. We Need to Talk About Kevin, Lionel Shriver We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. Together, they’ll share their thoughts on Franklin (lots of thoughts there), praise Lynne Ramsey’s directorial style, and conclude with an uplifting moment of grounding and self-care. We need to talk about Kevin, By Lionel Shriver, Serpent's Tail, $22.95 Well before the post-September 11 security crackdown, there were metal-detectors in American schools. Franklin vs Eva Olga Jul 02, 2013 01:34PM. 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? The first school made the problem worse, the second school was a miracle. In true "when your only tool is a hammer, ever problem looks like a nail", the school insisted he had ADD/ADHD. In the novel, he had kept a photo of her which she assumed he had torn to shreds. It’s a tough topic, but one we need to talk about and this week Jenn, Lara, and Mike tackle Lynne Ramsey’s psychological horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin. His mother thought he hated her but there were indications that he was dying for her attention and approval. But Kevin is just getting started, and … Previous Next . The degree to which is what I find really interesting. Guilt and Blame. Did they perhaps notice developmental issues and not inform his parents? Listen via Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Play | Stitcher | RSS. I agree, everyone is to blame to varying degrees. She knew what he was and everyone else denied it or couldn't see through it. Mike breaks down the many different diagnoses related to Kevin’s behavior from Conduct Disorder to Antisocial Personality Disorder and the difficulty in accurately diagnosing them. Yes and no. reddit has ruined me towards the name kevin. I am not a parent (nor do I want to be one) so I cannot speak from experience. Can we think poorly of anyone if nothing is in anyone's control because we're all deterministic machines? Father's bond with their children typically months after they are born, so can we call a father evil if he hasn't yet bonded with his child? I think Kevin was simply born that way. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? I don't know about the blame part. We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2011 psychological thriller drama film directed by Lynne Ramsay.The screenplay, written by Ramsay and Rory Stewart Kinnear, was based on the 2003 novel of the same name by Lionel Shriver.A long process of development and financing began in 2005, with filming commencing in … It has SPOILERS. The school still wanted me to medicate him. We … Who says if he wasn't abused everything would be okay. Franklin (though shown to be a cuddly guy in the movie) didn't see Kevin as he really was and wanted Kevin to be different, looking for his ideal son. The question about nature vs. nurture has gone on for a long time, and I think killers are both born and made. The fact that she even thinks of herself as evil and that Kevin came out evil because she is evil is odd. 6 - what role does the narrative style, that being Eva recounting Kevin's life and detailing her guilt and admitting everything she did wrong, influence our perception of Eva's responsibility? Kevin was bad from infancy. The school disagreed and required me to have him tested. I think the lesson here is that it is an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame. It has been a while since I read this book but it really stuck with me. Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram, — Bookclub – Lionel Shriver – We Need to Talk About Kevin. Ultimately the only person who is responsible for Kevin's actions is Kevin. To ask other readers questions about We Need to Talk About Kevin, please sign up. Kevin actually admired his mother a lot. With Tilda Swinton, John C. Reilly, Ezra Miller, Jasper Newell. — Implausible Psycho: “We Need to Talk About Kevin”, — ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: When Art Confronts Tragedy, — Beyond the Final Girl: We Need to Talk About Kevin and Motherhood in Horror, G Herbo Arrested for Stealing Identities to Pay for Vacation, Designer Puppies, More, Phoebe Bridgers Performs “Savior Complex” with a Piano Playing Ghost on Fallon: Watch, Ariel Pink Finds An Ally in Tucker Carlson, Saved By the Bell Star Dustin Diamond Diagnosed with Stage 4 Cancer, King Crimson's Robert Fripp and Wife Toyah Gift Us with Metallica's "Enter Sandman" on an Exercise Bike: Watch, WandaVision Promises a New Beginning for the Marvel Cinematic Universe: Review, Bandcamp Expands Its Vinyl Pressing Service to Accommodate 10,000 Indie Artists, Bookclub – Lionel Shriver – We Need to Talk About Kevin. This is the theme song for the film "We Need to Talk About Kevin," written and performed by Randy Newman*. He didn't have ADD/ADHD. 4 - what role do Kevin's doctors and teachers have? I am not a parent, but I think parent's face so much guilt and worry obsessively over the things they did, so it could be possible that Eva's abuse was lesser than what she recounted it to be, or less impactful on Kevin. Really interested to hear people's thoughts on this book. It's a weird narrative though if you know anything about very selfish abusive people though, aren't they introspective and they lie to themselves so they never have to feel the guilt she did. I think We need to talk about Kevin is a great book for discussion, there are many points that could be pulled apart and looked at closely. Is that within their control? Summary: We Need to Talk About Kevin explores the factious relationship between a mother and her evil son. By Elyse Wanshel. What made it disturbing?" I changed his school and his "ADD" disappeared. I think answering those can determine how much we can blame Eva-- or was he born like that? I think if it was told from a different POV we would probably assign blame a little differently, but no one else really ever picked up on the fact that Kevin was, for lack of better word, evil. 5 - do you empathize with Eva? Kevin's mother struggles to love her strange child, despite the increasingly dangerous things he says and does as he grows up. We Need to Talk About Kevin expands to more theaters this week. Tilda Swinton plays the mother, Eva, as she contends for 15 years with the increasing malevolence of her first-born child, Kevin. It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. We Need to Talk About Kevin question 329 views. It’s a tough topic, but one we need to talk about and this week Jenn, Lara, and Mike tackle Lynne Ramsey’s psychological horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin. The novel We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver is a chilling depiction of the actions of a son and the effects that it has on his mother, however under the surface, the true story depicts the dark side of motherhood. We need to talk about Kevin's lack of empathy The psychopathic son in Lionel Shriver's novel and Lynne Ramsay's film isn't evil – but has zero empathy Ezra Miller and Tilda Swinton in We Need … We need to talk about "Kevin." I do think he's evil, but what made him that way is intriguing. Lionel Shriver's 2003 best-seller, We Need To Talk About Kevin, chronicles a mother coming to terms with the heinous massacre her son committed in an upstate New York high school. We Need to Talk About Kevin movie tie-in A Novel download reddit audiobook We Need to Talk About Kevin movie tie-in A Novel audiobook If so, should they have? Lol thank you, I think about the book a lot and the more I do the more layers come to mind. Very … “We need to talk about Kevin” ... We are willing to talk about it openly because it threatens the existence of the community itself. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? Or nearly everybody is a bit to blame (except for little like his sister). Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? Overall, I feel as though "We Need to Talk About Kevin" serves as a grim reminder of the consequences faced when damage is allowed to perpetuate (whether that be through personal infliction of it or lack of action to remedy it). That also brings into question, in the movie more-so than in the book, if Kevin was really evil and Eva saw him for what he was, or if it was her perception and her projecting it on him made him who he was via a lack of parental bond. I think everyone is to blame, but I can't assess the majority of where it lies. Is anyone else as mystified as I am as to Franklin's apparent blindness to his son's nature, or is Kevin supposed to be a true chameleon with his parents, like sociopaths are supposed to be able to be? The novel explores the subtle repercussions of maternal ambivalence, nature versus nurture, and the complexities of a mother … Kevin is a mass-murderer: a boy who, shortly before his 16th birthday, kills seven classmates, a teacher and a school cafeteria worker. "Now I'm not so sure," he says (28.52). However, most serial killers had a fucked up childhood, so they are also made. We Need to Talk About Kevin Guilt and Blame. […] So I blamed me, and he blamed me. Based on the best-selling novel of the same name, We Need to Talk About Kevin explores nature vs. nurture on a We Need to Talk About Kevin explores … I think you are on to something though with your point about the narrative style influencing our perception. Maybe the abuse push him to do this in an early age. We spent hours, over days, having tests done. His mom most likely had untreated post partum depression, which caused her to be unable to bond with Kevin. I'm the adoptive parent of a child who had attachment issues and it was so, so hard. Because there are people who are full-fledged psychopaths who don't kill or commit any crimes, despite it being their nature. Word Count: 2350. Psychoanalysis is a weekly series on the Consequence Podcast Network that takes an in-depth look at a mental health topic through the lens of horror. I saw another person assess Eva as being the only one who never underestimated Kevin. A suspenseful and gripping psychological thriller, Lynne Ramsay’s WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN explores the fractious relationship between a mother and her… Was Kevin truly born like that, or did Eva's fear and lack of attachment to him over the course of his life, until the very very end of the book, cause/exacerbate the lack of emotional bond that caused him to lack empathy for other people? The Impossible Question of ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: Nature or Nurture? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Also be sure to follow the Consequence Podcast Network for updates surrounding future programming. If we had the same narrative style from a different character and knew their innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on them? Implausible Psycho: “We Need to Talk About Kevin”, ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: When Art Confronts Tragedy, Beyond the Final Girl: We Need to Talk About Kevin and Motherhood in Horror. I've both read the book and watched the movie so lemme know if I am mixing them up. 7 - In general, do you think in instances of atrocities like those portrayed in the book that the parents are more to blame than the children? Editing assignment || sum up a feature movie in 10 minutes || (4.19) This quote early in the book is a good introduction to the reasons for blame. But people like this end up doing fucked up things at some point. Reminded me of that old 1950's movie, The Bad Seed. But ultimately it’s Kevin’s fault. Review by Peanutscratch ★★★½ . He thought he knew. Eva and Franklin both had major short-comings as parents, and there was a definite lack of attention from the doctors as they are typically the ones we hope/expect to pick up on certain behaviors as well. 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